ROCKY IV Review – Abominations In Technicolor

August 15, 2019

the source second getting up on me broadcasting from an undisclosed
location which may or may not be a bedroom convert into a recording studio
I’m Rex overdrive back with another edition of abominations in Technicolor
this show is brought to you by the fine folks over at audible head on over to Lenny time that’s audible trial dot-com of all
nations and it directly supports the show now joining me as always as Adam
how’s it going Adam hey another week another delicious movies for our
enjoyment front pleasures a tasty title Oh delicious morsel this week I’m super
excited about this one well in this time it’s sort of directly ties in new movie
that’s coming out this weekend creep tune very excited to check out Creed to
you know I don’t know if it’s gonna be as good as that first one that first one
is really good and going into that one I I was kind of like are you kidding me
they’re gonna make a movie about Apollo Creed’s kid who was never even in any of
the previous Rocky movies right Apollo didn’t even know about this kid
apparently so yeah I just I didn’t have any expectations for that while I had
low expectations for that movie but it was a pleasant surprise I mean it was I
think it’s just like the nostalgia of rocky just kind of like the foundation
that it’s built with all of those movies like one through four we will talk about
some of the you know the the way we try to rank these movies a little bit later
but there’s something to that that emotionally at least for me it gave me a
foundation that allowed me to enjoy Creed so much more and
I really like that I’m looking forward to the new one isn’t it kind of gonna
kind of not just because of the whole connection with Apollo but like doesn’t
this one also have a Drago connection as well yeah I mean Dolph Lundgren’s even
in Crete too it’s got the whole lot yeah Drago’s son is going to fight Adonis
Creed so it’s like like ready on the nose yeah reviewing rocky 4 is the
perfect it’s perfect yeah leading up to Creed 2 so we’ll see how much creed 2
actually dives into the the rocky for lower I guess but yeah I’m really
looking forward to Creed or creed 2 I guess you know I I don’t know much about
the director who’s doing this one but the previous Rea Creed movie ahead Ryan
Coogler who then went on to do Black Panther and now he’s doing
Black Panther – but he’s a producer on Creed 2 so hopefully like the script and
all that stuff and you you have good actors in there alright I think the guy
who’s playing Drago’s son I believe he’s a fighter he
doesn’t even have any acting experience so it does go hand in hand with rocky 4
I guess we’ll see how that turns out but I’m right in the fight scenes in the the
film are top-notch so yeah we’ll see but one thing I do want to mention is we
want you guys to go ahead and give us a ranking and review on your podcast app
if you’re listening to us on a iPhone or iPad or whatever head on over to that
iPhone Apple podcast app and leave a ranking in a short review five stars
preferably but that lets us show up in the the search rankings and allows more
people to hear us but one thing I do want to plug and not plug but just
mention real quick is everyone should head on over to Netflix
and watch the ballot of Buster Scruggs Adam I know you watched a little bit of
it but yeah about halfway through oh man interesting I mean it’s it’s pretty out
there it’s a Coen Brothers movie so you got to
kind of like know what you’re getting into but I really enjoyed it I was a big
fan of like Django and chain that Tarantino movie from a few years back
and I get a little bit of that like humorous Western flavor with you know
they don’t pull any punches as far as violence and where where it can go in
this movie but the beginning at least the stuff with actually with Buster
Scruggs in it like that stuff was so great
slowed down toward the middle a little bit with the Liam Neeson stuff but very
very fresh movie you know like if you’re looking for something new and different
to watch if you’ve been maybe binging a series or something and you’re looking
for something new I would check it out just to get a you know palate cleanser
we use that term a lot on the show but it was kind of cool to get into
something that’s just totally different and I liked what I saw of it as far as I
got into it I started it late at night and then I I sadly fell asleep which
probably happens to a lot of us but yeah I will get back on the horse well
especially when you have an 18 month old yeah yeah that doesn’t help right yeah I
totally agree like and for me I I do agree with you as far as like the middle
as sort of does really slow down but pretty much like if you’re somebody who
has no idea what you took what we’re talking about this is a movie directed
by the Coen brothers they’ve done a lot of great stuff like No Country for Old
Men is one of my favorite movies of all time learned after reading yeah the
Fargo Fargo came out in the mid 90s that’s next
film but it’s it’s essentially just like a collection of stories and it just you
know it’ll spend like 10 15 minutes on you know one set of characters and tell
a story and then move on to the other but it’s just a really great collection
of stories that just has like humor violent violence and just this like
quirky like western tone and it just really works well altogether and just
it’s really entertaining and like you said it does feel like fresh and I know
we’ve seen tarantino step into the waters with that with django unchained
and the heat fillet even but i could definitely just go for more of this
style and you know it’s kind of sad seeing like the western genre is it’s
really dried up like there’s hardly any you know larger films being made in the
western genre i mean you know you had like the Magnificent 7 was a
high-profile one that came out i think a little over a year ago but you know
they’re just it’s like anything you know it’s popular for a while then it just
sort of dies out we might see that with comic book movies in 15-20 years or so
so yeah we’ll see but i urge you to you know take a minute from your daredevil
Netflix series or whatever the hell you’re watching that uh you know that we
you know we’ve seen that superhero stuff all the time so take a minute and watch
a a Great Western you know I enjoy and soak up the flavor but yeah there’s some
really good stuff being put on Netflix lately I’ve been enjoying one there’s
one I was watching last night I forgot what it was called but it’s a tank
documentary series and there’s some fascinating stuff in there so I thought
that was pretty cool but I think we can move on to our our main topic of the
discussion on this week’s episode and we’re going to be
into rocky 4 and now our feature presentation today the Soviet Union has
officially entered its professional boxing this is not just an exhibition
fight but this is us against them he would like to compete against anyone who
is qualified who is the most perfectly trained athlete ever whatever he hits start he’ll he couldn’t stop the fight he could have saved his best friend’s
life but now the one thing he can’t do is walk away December 25th where he said
one professional fight and one man is dead – baby it’s gonna have to kill me
why can’t you change your thinking little fire you can’t win I must be late rocky for now what could be more epic than that
yeah that’s how ah that’s just fantastic like if that doesn’t get you in the mood
to watch a goddamn Rocky movie I don’t know what will
oh man rocky 4 1985 kind of the tail end of the Cold War era this movie really
kind of put rocky on an international level I mean the stakes have never been
higher with a rocky movie we’re talking nation versus nation life versus death
you know it’s it’s really such a large scale and so so much he has so much to
lose at this point so you know if you’re a fan of Rocky one two and three I mean
to get to Rocky for to this point it really is is building and building so I
mean with that this movie performed actually very well and a lot of the
movies we’ve covered on the podcast we’ve talked about you know we always I
always reference fear and loathing that’s like my my standard or my like
floor like everybody’s gotta be at least as high as what was it 10 million years
young abominable you know but this movie did 128 domestic 300 million worldwide
it was like a hundred and seventy two or something like that or a hundred yeah something like which
is it it made more a little bit more just a couple of million dollars than
Rocky 3 but that’s still really impressive because with sequels usually
the first movie will be a massive hit right and if you look at the first Rocky
movie that made like a hundred seventeen million dollars domestic and then rocky
2 made 85 million dollars domestic so that
came down you know a decent amount and then you know rocky 3 and rocky 4 will
not be for more so and I mean we’re talking a difference in you know nearly
nearly a decade between rocky 1 and rocky 4 so I mean there’s there’s a
little bit of inflation and things like that
comic impact as well but not you know I look at this movie and I think like
there’s a reason they made the fourth one and it’s because people wanted more
Rocky movies you know what I mean like I I can’t think of any other franchise
where it goes that deep I mean it we’ll talk about where it goes as we go to
five and and and on but but um but I think that this movie would people
wanted it and they came to the theaters and they saw it but on the other hand
you pull up Rotten Tomatoes like we always do and I see a green splatter on
that thing like 38% tomato meter with you know contradicting 79% audience
score so I mean what what can you what can you infer from looking at numbers
like that like to me that that doesn’t really make sense like who’s making up
this 38% on this rocky 4 movie well third 38%
would be people are critics who gave it a positive review so it would be you
know what would that be 60 to 62 percent 16 oh yeah 62 percent of critics didn’t
like the movie and I guess I can sort of see why you know the previous Rocky
movies yeah they all had the the epic boxing sequences in the training and all
that but rocky 4 is a little bit different of a beast
what is rocky 4 is sort of a product of its time we’re talking the mid 80s here
ladies and gentlemen now then what year was that again what 85 85 yeah so we’re
smacked Aveda steer in cinematic history that’s true you have Back to the Future
what else was in 85 teen movies big adventure Teen Wolf it 1985 is one of
the most amazing years in film history at least for us on this podcast I’m a
cup about 30 percent of all of our episodes 385 for whatever reason I mean
it’s just coincidental but maybe there is some rhyme and reason into into why
but yeah it’s a product of its time and I think I think the writers and you know
just the filmmakers you know took that and maybe they wanted to make something
a little bit different it’s the fourth film in the franchise Rocky’s on top
like where else do you go you know but I think rocky for they sort of well let’s
try this something a little bit different here and take rocky
International yeah I think I think it works too what do you what do you remember like
your first experience with it doesn’t necessarily have to be rocky for but the
rocky franchise well I mean for the both of us our our dad was a big fan of the
Rocky movies and you know some of my earliest memories of any of the rocky
films and they’re all sort of you know I feel like I watched them all around the
same time and I think why that might sort of be is that like TNT or like
Spike TV they were always running those marathons yeah and I feel like that’s
where I got a lot of watch time with these Rocky movies is all of those like
weekend rocky marathons like on a Saturday or Sunday they’d be playing
rocky one through four all day long and that’s where I’d watch it yeah I
remember being probably 10 or so years old and it was late at night and I was
watching TV and it kind of rolled the opening credits but look just like the
opening sequence and you hear that fanfare playing and the text Scrolls
across the screen left to right rocky and huge print and I was just kind of
like waiting like what number is it because I was aware of the fact that at
that point I think there there were probably I don’t know five was out or
not but probably was but I was so excited I think that one was at the time
was three or something like that but I just like those movies were just so like
amazing to me like just because of the character and I just love the music and
I don’t know there’s just something about him that at least the first four
that I think they’re dis all likes they all play into each other really well and
they’re each kind of unique in their own way the first two I’d kind of put
together like a part 1 in part 2 yeah I agree three three and four just
kind of like extra ingredients on the pizza it’s like you know I mean like a
pepper a pepperoni pizza rocky one and two is is good and everything but like
doing like a three and four is just like adding those extra ingredients on there
you know and I mean it’s just like really making it all kind of just come
together a little bit more and mix it up a little bit but yeah I do dig rocky
four I’d agree to your point that it’s a product of its time whether that be the
music or the content with the civil war in the script and that kind of thing
like you know the cars they drive and I mean it’s it’s a little dated but in
such a wonderful way like the 80s was such a cool time period so it really
just gives you a full-blown you know sample of of 1980s flavor yeah and I
mean I wasn’t even born during this time period where this movie came out nor did
I see you know see it in theaters obviously but like if somebody was to
ask me what are some quintessential 80s movies and movies that sort of what’s
the word in cap encapsulate s’ yeah the decade I would put rocky four on that
list you know yeah you know it just oozes and resonates the 80s and right
you know it’s you know it has the cars it has the the clothes you know Rocky’s
you know rock in an eighties like yuppies sweater in the beginning of it
and then you have paulie’s robot which we you know we’re using the the
characters music in our podcast right yeah show so yeah I just think rocky 4
is a coin too seneschal 80s movie regardless if
there’s you know script issues and there’s not that much character
development I think it’s a just a fantastic 80s movie that just it just
brings you back to that decade and you know I think it’s a it’s a great time
like I’ll always love Rockies for yeah well we got some other other friends of
ours who we haven’t had on the podcast in a little bit and they weighed in on
rocky 4 back in 85 as well so let’s see what our boys Siskel and Ebert have to
say about rocky 4 I’m film critic of mr. Carter Kabir and I’ll add you as a film
critic at the Chicago sun-times as most everyone knows by now in rocky for Rocky
Balboa the working man sure a bike Love Machine like Russian champion named Ivan
Drago Drago this may surprise you but I really like
Russia for a lot that does surprise me I’m gonna be amazed at you let me
explain why I knew what was gonna happen in this picture I mean everyone knows
what’s gonna happen picture yet I got caught up in both of its price I even
got a little bit caught up like this was embarrassing to admit in the 15th round
at that price I thought somebody’s gonna play a trick on me I got caught up in it
I enjoyed rock music moments with his wife and his son which I’d wanted in
rocky 3 and didn’t get enough of in fact my only complaint is if there weren’t
enough of those things it was rocking for the original rock he worked because
of its love story I think as well as boxing and along the writer and director
has the emphasize the love angle throughout all the series and to their
detriment but what he does know how to do it this is what make this film work
this creates a great colorful villain push the brass Apollo Creed in number 1
then rocky to my favorite the villain was really rocky himself is overblown
ego then in rocky 3 that mad dog clubber Lang played by mr. t now even Drago well
played by the Adonis like Dolph Lundgren he’s a great villain and sit back there
and enjoy the films are great I want to have to eat popcorn by and I want more
if he can make another great girl and I want rocky 5 I don’t want rocky 5 please
don’t give me rocky 13 flight what I’m amazed about it that you wanted rocky
for this movie is the bottom of the bill they’re over at the beginning the first
half hour every scene is Liggett ory you have to check in with Asia you have to
talk to his brother-in-law there’s a Lockheed you have a bunch of new people
well I think that what the interested enough as a matter of fact
1976 I made a great movie business yes about a real human being
Rocky Balboa and a touching love affair with a skill now that’s turned into this
Liga typical monster who takes over the entire movie the other real people whose
life everyone on whom there’s the private that’s a 2/3 the one-third mark
where somebody loses and the fight is a 2/3 movie is absolutely formula it’s
predictable how it is uninspired and it is not excitable and even the fight at
the end which really works for me didn’t work this time Roger you like from the
others in the series – so exactly what’s gonna happen there that’s right yeah and
I’m telling you at this time this villain we’ve complained about Clint
Eastwood not coming up with great villains we complain with the James Bond
series not coming up with great villains it’s a common flaw let me tell me it’s
even drago a good villain our bad villain let me know I answered that one
first he’s a moderately interesting villain
but let me ask you another better thank you how come he never has a single scene
along with his wife the one who girls all over speaking for him I do Barbara
how come she’s such a big character it has nine times more dialogues Amiga
because he fought to be Stalin and the Russians maybe not cheap audience and
she’s played by the law because I think if he’d been allowed to take over all of
that dialogue anymore like they’re just it would have been a lot better than him
pinata finally while Brigitte Nielsen has all of the bull I don’t think though
as I said he punch people why an unexpected totally burr or we have a
changing of the sides here switcheroo yeah normally for anybody that has
listened to the podcast you know in many of our episodes where we use Siskel and
Ebert normally our opinions tend to be in line with on the side of Roger Ebert
but in this case he seems to have some of his own ideas about what this movie
should have been even though he claims he didn’t even want it in the first
place yeah and the funny thing about listening
back to this bet those guys said they didn’t want a Halloween five and a
Friday to the thirteenth five right those things actually happened so it’s
it’s sort of fun to you know hear that back and I did agree with them about not
wanting Rocky five though I thought yes pretty funny it’s like yeah let’s just
we’re gonna just skip that one maybe but right yeah I don’t I don’t know I I
would agree with everything about Ivan Drago being a good villain and I just I
don’t I don’t think it’s important to raise the questions of why does the who
who was that the prime minister or whatever it was that I forget what his
title is but the the head guys the USSR like that guy was that was speaking for
Drago in the press conferences or was that just his promoter um I don’t
remember who they yeah feel like he was one of the a large political figure
because he was up in that like box at the end of the movie and everyone’s kind
of like under him on that panel of bigwigs up there
yeah his character all his uh his character name is is Nikolai Koloff and
I mean it doesn’t indicate really I don’t think like what his actual title
is yeah um but yeah he does seem to have some ties to you know like Russia’s or
the the Soviet Union’s like um I don’t think that it’s important that someone
explain why Dolph Lundgren doesn’t talk so much and why Brigitte Nielsen and
that dude are doing all the talking forum I mean if anything it’s a way to
incorporate more characters and I think that there’s some value added by having
a little bit of mystery in the villain like we we talked about how
Michael Myers is a successful slasher villain because of the mystery of never
hearing him talk and being able to like clearly see his facial features and
stuff like that like having a villain like that he they don’t have to have
several lines of dialogue to be to get the job done and I mean he has plenty of
spotlight and limelight in this movie like I mean he said he obviously have to
to boxing matches worth of physical presence and then some great stuff with
the training montage and press conferences and stuff like that like
there’s plenty of Ivan Drago to go around in this movie to the point where
you don’t need him spouting off lines of dialogue and furthermore some of the
dialogue that he has is like super quotable lines like if he dies he dies
and I must break you and I mean those are great lines that are just little
one-off things that have over the years been very quotable yeah I mean like he
may not have that many lines but I feel like he is heavily featured throughout
this film and you feel the presence from this guy regardless of how many lines he
has and that sort of speaks to just the physical nature of Dolph Lundgren at the
time who was I think he was like 26 years old had never been in a movie
before and I think that sort of you know is somewhat of why he probably didn’t
have that many lines because the guy had never been in a movie before yeah I
think Brigitte Nielsen was only in one but you know she was probably a little
bit more experienced and yeah and other characters from some more lines I also
don’t agree with the stuff about like him having to check in with each
character like because it’s he called it like part of being
formulaic or whatever being a formula first of all I think the formula in the
first three works pretty well so why not stick with it and we’ve learned a love a
lot of these characters like Pauli and and Adrian and like why would you not
incorporate them in there and you know paulie’s gonna be living in their house
like mooching off of them the whole time so of course he’s gonna be there you
know but I feel like all of that was important because it shows all of the
things that rocky had to lose he was on top he was the champ and not only did he
lose Apollo right at the beginning which we’ll get
into but like he has all of that stuff and they come and he talks about how
none of that stuff is important and that you know his his nature in fighting is
is he can ignore it he has to rise to the occasion and face Ivan Drago because
that’s in his nature as as a fighter like he has to to take on the challenge
and like just get into kind of the the plot of this movie like it’s the very
beginning Ivan Drago is a threat to not just Rocky as as enough as being an
up-and-comer I think Ivan Drago had won the he was an
Olympic champion and an amateur champion and making his break into the the pro
circuit or whatever and his first introduced and Apollo sees him as a
threat and you know it’s foreign person from Russia of all places and initially
he looks at it as an opportunity to kind of prove something both a statement of
kind of his his ego taking over improving
still got it but then also kind of a USA versus Russia thing as well and I don’t
know if that’s kind of shoehorned in there kind of feels that way just
because it’s like you know if you were retired and enjoying life and everything
I think but I’d at the same time I do get that
uh Apollo is hungry he’s he’s a fighter to just kind of like how rocky talks
about and they justify that pretty well that that concept of having to keep
fighting but but yes Apollo goes into the fight
totally cocky and arrogant does not take it seriously hardly trains makes it into
a big show and goes down and his ego gets the best of him they don’t stop the
fight he makes rocky promise not to stop the fight and he he loses his life for
it and that sets the stage of who this villain is it’s so important that Apollo
dies in the beginning of this movie because it makes Ivan Drago the most
dangerous and toughest most badass intimidating fighter that rocky has yet
to face to the point where not even Adrian thinks he can do it you know yeah
well in and also rocky was the one that you know he ended up not throwing in the
towel for Apollo so he holds a hill over his own head right brings that much more
weight to this whole you know storyline and I guess with with Apollo the whole
thing is that and I do feel like it’s kind of shoehorned in there the
beginning of the movie is by far sort of the the most clunkiest yeah but this
whole thing’s an exhibition match and you know it’s it’s going into this fight
it’s not supposed to be you know that serious of a match I guess you know
it’s not for a title match or anything like that it’s just an exhibition
exhibition match and for me I always thought this this fight like I always
found it hard to watch not that it’s bad but just knowing that Apollo dies in it
it’s just something that I you know I don’t know I just couldn’t ever I
oftentimes just want to like look away for whatever reason I’m not entirely
sure why but yeah I just always found it hard to watch this fight knowing you
know that the Apollo dies at the end of it well I think it’s you know you look
back at Rocky III when rocky and Apollo really bond and become a team like
that’s such a cool thing and very short-lived after you kind of see that
just go away you know what I mean like it’s that was such a great like
breakthrough in in the plot of of the saga you know I mean like what a cool
thing but yeah it’s it’s awful because he goes into it
not even a not even the slightest concept that he could lose like he’s
talking about knocking him out and that he’s going down not in and he dies you
know I mean like he gives his life and I mean that fight could have stopped he he
knew he was gonna get smoked like he went down in the first round and God
just like destroyed but he asked for it you know he’s even at the end when rocky
had the towel in his hand I think there were spots in there where he was saying
no no like don’t you know I mean he’s yelling it out like everyone’s yelling
stop the fight and he could hear Apollo saying no as he’s getting like beat down
so it’s just it is hard to watch it’s it’s gruesome and it’s hard to see like
it’s hard to understand at – and there’s the James Brown factor is like yeah so
we’d be remiss to not mention the living in America performance by James Brown
that’s in there that’s pretty pretty outstanding you know to be just kind of
thrown into a movie gotta love that I guess or not but I always loved I mean
now it’s it’s not as good when he fights Apollo but just the Ivan Drago theme you
know when he’s coming out oh yeah I thought that that stuff’s always great
but I do want to mention how crazy is it that they included the death of Apollo
Creed in the trailer yeah and I mean I feel like that super spoil like if that
came out today like people would be up in arms about that me nuts
yeah I’ve noticed that with some of these older trailers they’re just really
on the nose and they they show you the kind of the whole movie and or all or a
lot of the good highlights are like thrown in there with like narration it’s
like that’s that’s not good like that’s they make trailers very different now
than they used to that if that’s true yeah the trailer for this movie that you
they let you know that Apollo dies in Rocky’s going to Russia to fight Drago I
mean yes maybe it’s because you can’t back then you can watch trailers over
and over and over and over that’s true yeah on YouTube like you can now so now
they have to be people will digest them so much faster and want something
additional much sooner and and so therefore it’s probably best not to have
too much content in there make it make things very vague and now
not disclosed too many things that are gonna give away the goods yeah but I
mean with this movie I guess how do you market it you know there’s a fight
sequence Rocky’s struggling with having to you know leave the people he loves to
go fight this this this steroid Russian boxer there is some limitations with
this story it’s pretty basic so I can see how yeah and I do want to mention
though this is like the shortest Rocky movie this movie is only like 90 minutes
yeah this movie’s a breeze to get through the first Rocky movies like two
hours Rocky twos rate in that ballpark and Rocky 3 I think is like 40 an hour
and 45 yeah but even Rocky 5 is longer than this film so yeah yeah it’s by far
the most like commercial Rocky movie it’s very streamlined very basic the
script was you know it must be considerably shorter than the previous
films but yeah I just wanted to put that out there as sort of a fun fact so like
with with Drago the you know Siskel talking about how good of a villain is I
think it’s it’s important to kind of appreciate the way that they shot this
movie like their ability cuz Stallone isn’t really like a tall guy and he’s
really I weighed in and in stature he’s way shorter than Drago so like I really
have always appreciated like the way that they shot the fighting in this
movie you know in in any Rocky movie it’s it’s a lot of like shots that are
clearly not landing on the guy’s head but they have to you know it’s stunt
work but you know we have a clip we’re kind of getting into Stallone
talking about how you go about shooting that and and some of the efforts that
they put into that how real were the fight scenes and how much did you have
to get into shape in those movies a lot a lot yeah because the the as opposed to
a fight which is you know incredibly grueling and you can you know face life
and death this fight will go on for months so you’re in the gym and you have
to be able to do scenes over and over and over and over again
so you’ll be in the rain for maybe altogether 6070 hours you know and then
you you piece it down to like 15 minutes or eight minutes so it’s I I felt what
set Rocky’s apart from other fighting films is the way the American public of
the world in general perceives a fight usually through television and it’s a to
kind of a wide shot very rarely are you above anywhere near the ankles your wide
so you can see the movement and the ballet and a box against puncher you
start getting into this that’s that’s I don’t know what that is
mm-hmm but it’s not boxing it’s it’s now becomes like oh we’re supposed to see
the paint but the pain really is in the body language you know when you see
someone who’s truly connected and a wide show you go oh like you know the great
guy a fight with Micky Ward if you were here you wouldn’t sense it right you
know she’s just too close to the action so that means basically is a long-winded
dissertation you have to do it you have to practice a great deal to to be able
to throw and not get caught but did you get hurt at all man really adopt long
they put in the hospital for nine days nine days that was Rocky III yeah I was
nine I know it’s in trouble for it up and nuns met you know it was an accident
it was up I had seen the Hagler hurens fight and I went I kind of forget what
we’ve been practicing now Dolph I want you to get out there and just try to
clock me knock me out just go for for the first minute of the fight it’s gonna
be a free-for-all I want to be because what I saw when Hagler and Hearns –
consummate professionals went crazy on each other they just literally went nuts
three rounds three rounds they became not like
amateurs but it’s like to truly brutal enemies I said do the same things out
there and I’m like five ten he’s like six twelve
okay he’s and he was also a world champion kickboxer so he knows how to
fight and he’s whoa in the chest and that after that night competitions and
they said oh my god and went to the hospital they put me in a low altitude
flight and then I had to go back to st. John’s Hospital in California nine days
later Lourdes in London Lloyd’s of London were brought it all we know he’s
faking it I said no I want to hang out and I see you for 90 it’s not my idea of
a vacation so they went through the film I sure enough it’s and I don’t know how
fighters not do not get hurt more often it was an uppercut
cut the ribs which hit the heart against the ribcage and it’s a thing called a
lot of cardial sex you usually get this and head-on collisions I said well close that’s funny
wow that’s crazy I do like what he says about like how you film a boxing match
because yeah you want it to feel sort of realistic and I guess realistic in the
sense of like how how actual boxing matches are filmed you know like if you
turn on the TV and watch a boxing match there’s never like close ups you know
what I mean right right everything is like at a wide angle which
yeah it’s what he’s talking about I think Creed changed that up they do
sort of like a in the ring handheld look and yeah I did like that but I think I
do prefer the more like the more rocky ask Bobby mhm
they’ll do a few different they do a few different angles you know I mean it’s
not like TV would probably like one stationary one that’s kind of one side
or the other or whatever but yeah I I thought it was
crazy how long they how much footage they shoot of it and I like the idea of
like having one sequence that’s real yeah I mean like pull as much as you can
from that and then some of the other stuff you’ll you’ll get with editing
yeah and I mean the fact that like 60 to 70 hours in the Ring that’s that’s a lot
and yeah you know like it’s just it’s a testament to like how how I guess I
don’t know if dedicated is the word but like you have an actor like Hugh Jackman
who’s portrayed Logan or Wolverine since 2000 but then you have Sylvester
Stallone it’s been what is it 42 years since the original rocket yeah I mean
the guy’s not I mean he probably gets in shape a little bit right to look
somewhat fit but yeah and I think he’s just generally fit but regardless this
him in this movie though he was so ripped yeah both of these guys they’re
just like yes surd Lee rip they’re just these like ultimate human specimens that
are just like dripped in baby oil and is just like shredded it’s wild to watch
rocky 1nc Stallone’s body in that one and then look at rocky for like yeah he
just really leaned out and but at the same time the cool thing about that is
that that’s in the story like in Rocky three he kind of learns that like how to
move around the ring and how to be how to be a little bit quicker and not to be
walking around like you know like Apollo shows him how to fight and how to dance
around the ring in and and leans them out and teaches him how to fight and
have it kind of be the box of the that he was the style that Apollo
to make him better a little bit of both worlds so I love the fact that like it’s
in line with the story that his his physique changes to look more like that
and I mean he was just in great you know peak shape or whatever like you really
got the feeling at in the end that when he goes to face
Drago he and after the training mount of multiple training montages that that you
watch like you just look at him and be like damn like he really did it
you know like he’s ready yeah chopping up wood and climbing out mountains
awesome really shreds you and we’re gonna get into some of that training
montage and and material we’re saving that for later we’ll get to it right
after the break audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook with a 30 day
trial membership just go to abominations and get started today all right and we’re back we’re gonna be
getting into an aspect of this movie that I think really sets it apart from
the previous films and that’s the soundtrack now there is quite a few
probably several great songs on this soundtrack that just brings in the
flavor Adam you want to sort of give us a rundown of some of these these tracks
I do my favorite ones at least there’s more than just these five but I kind of
hand-picked these out just based on like when I was watching the movie I kind of
was like oh yeah that was a good one but a burning heart by survivor is a song
comes on they play it when Rocky’s arriving in Russia on the plane and yeah
that’s the one right there hearts on fire by John Cafferty and the beaver
Brown Band so I mean hearts on fire just then the
title of the song you know you kind of know which song that is it’s in the
second training montage in Russia war by Vince Nicola
so Vince tacola he’s got a couple of them on here did the main training
montage as well and then no easy way out by Robert pepper another great song
these songs together I mean this has to be maybe my favorite movie soundtrack
and when we’re talking about soundtracks I mean like movies that plug in music by
artists not just like composers like not just a score but an actual soundtrack
and this movie does it well by they plug them in at certain times transitional
times or montages or you know ways to complement the movie
the right way and it also sprinkles in some of the old flavor of the original
Rocky movies obviously this one was the first one up to this point that wasn’t
composed by bill conti so bill Conti did the original Rocky movie
I think they recorded that whole score for that movie in like three and a half
hours something ridiculous on a tight budget that’s crazy and yeah it’s one of
those Mook one of those movies where you know you learn a little bit about it
you’re like just everything fell together perfectly and it’s just like a
an amazing thing like the miracle of a of a movie kind of the way the Halloween
was for horror like what John Carpenter whipped that one up this is actually
very the original Rocky’s actually very kind of similar in that it had kind of a
lower budget and such a great culmination of different things coming
together but God this soundtrack is so good I remember playing that like I was
working at one of my old jobs I had that playing on the stereo CD and somebody
asked me like what is what’s that music you’re listening to I was like oh that’s
just the rocky soundtrack rocky force soundtrack and they’re like oh I gotta
get that yeah they were just like super Stovall like I know yeah but I can’t he
was like I know that but I can’t quite place it like what the what is that and
it just really works well you were talking earlier about being a product of
its time period like these songs could have totally destroyed this movie but
instead they like elevated it and I don’t know if Gene Siskel and Roger
Ebert appreciated them at the time because
they were in the 80s and they were just surrounded by eighties music and all of
that flavor that was going on but these are just so perfect for this movie like
I feel like they create a tone and they create this like building epic storyline
and even the lyrics of some of the songs really cater to the plot of the movie
like no easy way out like there’s no easy way for him to to get out of where
he’s going to face Ivan Drago like he has to work do the work and train hard
and and I think maybe at that time too he’s thinking like he can’t just not
fight him I think that’s when he’s contemplating whether or not he wants to
fight him or not he’s dealing with the grieving of Apollo’s death and the
pressure of everyone putting on him to fight Ivan Drago and then goes home and
talks to Adrian about it and she says you can’t you can’t win right yeah I
mean you you totally feel the weight on this guy’s shoulders you know it’s this
sort of tug of war thing where you know his family doesn’t want him to have
anything to do with this this fight that sort of been a consistent thing with
Adrian in all these movies is that that’s the one thing about her character
that’s yeah sort of the core is that you know she loves rocky but at the same
time she hates what he does but she knows he has to do the tests to do it
and that you with the music and the story and the characters it really feels
like I don’t know you feel just the the tension and the weight of what this
movie is building towards and I feel wit like with the the end fight there it
really pays off you know you the movie you know it’s
taking place in Russia at this point Rockies you know he’s shacking it up
with Paulie and I don’t remember his coach’s name is originally Apollo’s
culture Duke okay dude yeah they’re shacking it up in the middle of nowhere
and in Russia and yeah you know he’s he’s training the old-fashioned way with
axes and climbing up mountains and in badasses what it is yeah it’s just that
whole montage is one of the greatest like back to back to Adrienne like one
of the coolest things about I think it’s rocky to is I think they have a baby
right and she I don’t think he was even gonna I don’t know if he was gonna fight
or not her I can’t remember what his State of Mind was but she says there’s
something you can do for me and she says win and then it like begins the training
montage of Rocky – okay yeah and you kind of get that again in this movie
where she says you can’t win and that’s the only time I feel like we’ve had that
she doesn’t want him to fight before but I don’t think she’s ever said like
you’re not gonna win right yeah and I think it really breaks him down in a way
that’s kind of similar to the way he broke down and didn’t feel like he could
win without Mick in Rocky 3 and yeah kind of get some of that back by
bringing in Apollo and Duke in Rocky 3 and beating clubber Lang and then he has
to be broken down again with Apollo dying in Rocky 4 and Adrian telling him
he can’t win and Paulie tells them stuff like that all the time yeah but but then
we’ve got a great training montage initially you talked about the cabin and
in him kind of doing some of that like rustic training and then he gets back
from running around and dragging sleds and rolling over logs and stuff like
that he comes home and Adrian’s there waiting for him again and she gives him
that reassurance again like she did in Rocky 2 and says you know I’m with you
no matter what you know like she’s just saying like I support your determination
and she understands that he’s in it till the end and she’s there with him to
support him and I think that is a cool moment that’s parallel to Rocky – yeah
and then after that then they give us another montage right hearts on fire by
John Cafferty and the beaver Brown Band and I mean that one is insane
you’ve got like super badass jump roping with dust floating in the air after each
rope hits the floor and you can just hear that thing whirling and then he’s
hanging from the rafters or the Anduin set up up above there holding his legs
and he’s doing inverted sit-ups and his abs are just glistening you know in the
fight light of the camp the hearth or the fire in the log cabin and then he
also does these badass leg lifts where he’s like holding his head and his legs
are up in the air and he lowers them down like almost horizontal and then
back up I mean it’s just awesome I and what I have good at grace right now it’s
it’s so good man it’s so good well and I would like to say that one of the
reasons I think it’s so good it’s not only it’s accompanied by this fantastic
music piece by you know John Cafferty and the beaver Brown Band yeah don’t
forget the beaver Brown Band but the contrast between the way rocky is
training in the way Ivan Drago is trained oh you know it’s rustic versa
phonology and generates yes and I just love that blend yeah it’s really great
and even to the point where they’re really drilling down to like the things
that Rocky is doing in the snow and all of that is like the same it’s working
the same body part right yeah you know as what what Drago is doing whether like
when he’s climbing the mountain they showed Drago doing an incline treadmill
yeah they keep cranking it up you know and I mean and it builds and builds and
he loses the couple guys that are tailing him in the car
and he runs up the mountain and and then it just finally like climactically ends
with him yelling Drago at the top of the mountain like I’m coming after you and I
mean that moment where he yells at the top of the mountain is like one of my
favorite that’s maybe my favorite rocky moment of all time it’s just it’s just
so awesome it’s just so badass yeah it’s it’s probably one of the greatest
moments in this movie I feel like at at that point you’re like he’s he’s gonna
win you know yeah it’s so uplifting and motivating like you you’re just totally
behind this guy and going into this fight you just want him to kick Drago’s
ass but I do sort of want to get into the character of Drago and sort of like
after re-watching this in all the training sequences and seeing them
inject steroids into his shoulder like yeah I started to get feel a little bit
sympathy for Drago and sort of viewing him as this
sort of like experiment or like lab rat right and I think that sort of plays
into the end of the end of the movie sort of the tail end of the fight
they’re you know yeah that’s just something new I sort of caught well
while watching rocky for again well I’d liked the touch of when he says he wins
for him yeah yeah he’s like saying I win for me or I think it helps bring
together some of the more political statements they’re trying to throw in
there about kind of Lee everyone needing to change like how he’s kind of just a
pawn in this larger scheme for the Soviets to to defeat the Americans you
know it’s more like they’re just using him as a tool yeah accomplish this
invasion of this sport and them being the champion on top and he’s feeling
used whereas rocky I feel like he feels like
he’s a an individual who’s free to he individually on his own achieved his
championship so it’s a different perspective with Drago and Drago sees
that as like I feel like he probably envies Rocky and especially after the
Soviets start chanting for Rocky he abandons his his Soviet leaders that are
sponsoring him and he says like this is for me I don’t care about you guys the
political guys and I don’t care about the fans like this is for me and I mean
I think that’s probably where the sympathy kind of stems from is like you
feel like he’s he’s worked hard to be there as well but
he’s more or less just a Frankenstein of a guy and nobody really cares they just
wanna wit wants the Soviet Union to win they don’t really care if Ivan Drago
wins yeah he’s just sort of a pawn in this larger scheme and everything’s kind
of being manipulated around him beyond his control yeah and he’s got some like
I said earlier he’s got some some pretty cool lines like I believe it when he had
the the cojones to say if he dies he dies like Apollo was laying there like
convulsing on the ground like dying and he’s just sitting there saying like I
want to fight the champion you know if he die if he does he dies like I feel
like he should go to jail yeah if you fight someone and and beat them to death
in a ring even if it’s in sport if after the fact you’re just like it’s okay if
he dies really like he should be in jail right yeah and I’m I’m actually really
curious to how all this is sort of gonna play into creed to with the Drago’s I
think yeah there’s some I hope it’s not terrible I know but I think there’s some
real exploration that they can do with all that and you know how did a you know
Drago’s career sort of turn after that defeat from Rocky you know I think
there’s some really cool stuff they could do with that so we’ll just have to
wait and see when it what do you think just to wrap up kind of the movie itself
like as far as the speech at the end like after he defeats him how’d you feel
about like the whole end where rocky says you know throughout the match I
feel like there was a lot of change in the way I
felt about you or the way you felt about me the way I felt about you and I feel
like you if we could all change then bla bla bla like I feel like that worked
pretty well but I I feel like the way it was written was cool like it it worked
with Rocky’s vocabulary and his demeanor and the way he talked yeah I believe
that that and I mean you’re not gonna do yo Adrian again but right but I just
don’t know about the way that the Russians started chanting for Rocky like
just kind of I just don’t see that that would ever happen it just feel sort of I
think I think people like an underdog but I don’t think that you know when
you’re at war there’s basically you know the end of the Civil War like that just
seems like a super convenient thing so like I could understand if people were
just like saw something like then they’re like this is silly
you know I could get that that’s kind of a moment for me that took me out of the
movie where I just thought it was a little bit too a little too convenient a
little too Hollywood but I know that that there was the intention was to make
a good positive statement and I think that that’s always an admirable quality
to have in a movie especially if it leaves you feeling so good like this
movie just has it given you a lot of good motivational kind of feelings so to
cap it off with something like that that could be related to real life and the
real world that we were living in at that time like that would be very cool I
would hope that people that saw in Russia and the Soviet Union would feel
like they you know had positive feelings related to it as well but
feel like this is more of a movie for Americans than a movie for Russians for
sure I mean yeah I would I would be curious to see how this was received in
and yeah at the time when I came out that’d be kind of funny too to learn my
price they probably despised it or something
they probably think it’s garbage who knows yeah hey but they’re no longer
under the the Soviet Union control right after a 91 they were freed yeah
Hasselhoff took him down that’s right man Hasselhoff ended the
Cold War ended the sighs single-handedly along with rocky 4 so one thing I wanted
to touch on is just to kind of get this wrapped up I mean I think we’ve we’ve
dissected rocky 4 we both seem to be quite fond of it but the question kind
of remains where does this rocky rank amongst all of the other Rocky’s like
what is your list I would say this one is number one I don’t think it’s the
best movie but I think it has the most rewatch ability at least for me yeah I
think it’s the most fun it’s the most outrageous I love the music in it the
sort of 80s atmosphere that it really you know yeah it really holds on to and
I don’t know I I find myself coming back to this one more than the other ones I
guess after that it would probably be like the original rocky and I think
that’s probably the best movie it’s just so yeah great like character piece of
Rocky all right you know I believe it won best picture of 1976 yeah that went
three Oscars wow that’s that’s incredible
uh-huh and then after that I would put rocky three I really I really love Rocky
3 – as especially got Hulk Hogan in there as
thunderlips me and that’s how I stumble lives yeah I put rocky to after that
yeah I’d put Creed after that so Creed would be the number five I think that’s
an incredible an incredible movie it’s just I have a little bit more favoritism
to the other Rocky movies yeah but I can remember if I even finished Rocky 5 but
then you have Belt Rocky Balboa and I don’t even remember that movie so I’ll
put rock 5 at the end and then bail Rocky Balboa right before that one well
above that yeah that’s my good that’s my list that’s a safe play mine’s pretty
much the same I like for the best I like I would probably put one in two
together I I always kind of look at those movies
like they’re like part 1 and part 2 it’s like Karate Kid Part 1 and 2 for me
yeah kind of thing but I don’t know if I could split them up because I love the
first one like the love story of it all but then I love rocky too because he
finally wins yeah I mean like in Rocky one he doesn’t win it’s like a draw and
the drago’s to the champion you know I mean yeah and he clearly lost like the
count of how many punches were landed and all that but I did I love that in
Rocky to how he wins but threes great you know with the clubber Lang mr. t
stuff in there rocky v is a straight-up abomination and
there are many movies that we’ve covered and what we like to do on the podcast is
we like to cover movies that are that maybe
critically panned or or not not necessarily well reviewed bow that we
can find some sort of positive light or nostalgia or something about it you know
I think there’s been a couple we’ve done just because they were bad and but I
don’t have any interest in going anywhere near Rocky five that movie I
have a a blu-ray like collection version of Rocky the the complete collection
yeah and I feel really compelled to take rocky five out of there and just like
destroy it and just make it so it doesn’t exist right um I do know I do
not like that movie and the interesting thing about that for me at least is that
it was directed by the same director John avildsen who did the original rocky
really that one I think he won an Oscar come on Rocky
I believe what happened he did rocky v and Stallone did two three and four yeah
so what about five just crept I just don’t I don’t know if it’s plot or if
it’s Tommy Morrison as tommy gun or whatever like yeah yeah I was bad but
man five is stinker and and that’s why I was laughing when Ebert was talking
about we didn’t ask for rocky five I was like hallelujah amen brother
but uh he’s but yeah it probably say otherwise my list I would say Creed
would be up there right after so I’d go I’d go rocky for Rocky one in two rocky
three and three is close like three is really
I might even go rocky for rocky one rocky 3 rocky – Creed Rocky Balboa than
Rocky 5 right yeah rocky for man I has a
clunky first first act but I mean once it gets rolling man does it get roll it
and all that I want to go I want to give a shout out to a couple different scenes
real quick Duke played by Tony Burton who was Apollo’s trainer that guy in
this movie rocky 4 is amazing yeah he he has a couple scenes in there one of them
is in the cabin he comes up and he’s like you know what you have to do do it
and he is so intense and laser-focused and that his performance he’s very good
for such a small role that guy is amazing and I love the no pain he says
and he says no pain no pain right I love that like you could that’s a one liner
that you can use in real life all the time like it so yeah so awesome and then
the other thing was Paulie played by Bert young we got a got a shout-out to
Paulie Paulie had a funny scene when when Rocky’s getting ready for the fight
he kind of like breaks down and starts crying and telling him that if he could
be anyone else he’d want to be him and he loves them and all that they’re
walking out to the fight – Rocky’s getting ready to go out to the ring and
paulie’s like yeah forget all that other stuff I said earlier like he doesn’t
want to be him anymore because he’s got to go fight Ivan Drago so that was a
pretty that’s a pretty funny line that’s classic Paulie there I wanna I want to
shout out a scene with Paulie real quick what’s it
Oh yeah absolutely that’s its rate when
they get to the the cabin in Russia and he falls into the snow oh yeah I just
cracking up well while watching the a spat this past time so he was bitching
about how there wasn’t even any antennas on that’s great he’s a character that
gets sort of the Rose Bowl right yeah he’s what about his robot at the
beginning of the movie oh yeah it’s I forgot I forgot it’s name
is it’s a guy at first and then he changes the voice to a female and this
sort of like romantic flare going on between them this sexual tension and
it’s great I mean he’s a character that doesn’t have much to do but what he does
with what he’s given he adds a lot to the movie some of that the comedic humor
and I don’t know I love the character of Polly yeah Burt young he was he was
popular back then too he did Amityville Horror that was a really popular horror
movie I liked him I think he’s he’s a character that it like just really adds
a lot of that that a comic relief you’re just kind of taking especially in the
earlier movies like Rocky one is such a such a slow burn of a movie and Paulie
just adds in a lot of good flavor as far as comedy and contrast of of personality
and that kind of thing Rocky is very rocky Adrian in the first movie are very
dull as far you know it’s it would be a very different movie
if you pull Paulie out of there he’s he adds a little color so really appreciate
him being one of the parts of the formula that those that Siskel and Ebert
were talking about we like the formula up until Rocky 5 and maybe that’s why
Rocky 5 didn’t work being in the forum you know I don’t know
one thing that I noticed with rocky for I believe this is the case so if I’m not
mistaken but I think they go first round second round montage and then end of the
fight and that’s the same thing that happens in Rocky one is first round
second round montage and then the end of the funnel so and it’s usually like the
opponent wins the first round then rocky kind of makes his surge and then they go
back and forth in the montage and then the very end they’re like trading blows
until both of them are almost falling down you know yeah but uh that’s that’s
the equation that’s the formula for how to shoot a successful boxing match on
one of the Rocky movies yeah but you better have a damn good montage with
some good synthesizers yeah I mean I think rocky 4 is one of the kings of
montage I mean Scarface gives it a run for its money and I mean that might even
that could even I guess you could argue is the king of montages but in my mind
rocky 4 is you know the ultimate film with montages it’s it’s not just how
many montages you have is the quality of each montage you know yeah it’s it’s
really an art form yeah you gotta have a montage
yeah even Team America World Police we’re essentially making fun of rocky 4
and a couple other 80s movies with that whole montage parody but I think we can
wrap this this episode up here we’ve I think we we’ve covered rocky 4 in great
detail and we hope you guys enjoyed the episode next week we haven’t decided
on a movie yet but we’ll announce it on social media whether it’s our twitter or
instagram make sure to follow us at abominations pod either on Twitter or
Instagram we’re on Facebook as well so check us
out but Adam any any final thoughts or comments we’ll look I’d say let’s have
some of the listeners if you’d like to shoot us some ideas for what movies
you’d like to have us do I mean we I don’t think we’ve done that yet try to
try to take a few samples and see if we can check them out in time for next week
but we’ve done a few things where we’ve thrown around some and put up some polls
and had some votes and that kind of thing but feel free to shoot us some
ideas on Twitter and we’ll see what we can do now and you can always call in at
six one six five nine four zero seven six four or just email us at
abominations pod at and for Adam and myself we’ll see you next week

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